Ct110 Charging in The Repair Shed - Electrical Help Forum

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Ct110 Charging

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Mike3CT	Ct110 Charging	Lead	[-]
Posts: 25 Jul 10 11 4:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I need help I have 2 CT90s that have been retrofitted with early 80 ct110 motors. I am having nothing but trouble getting the charging to operate correctly. I have tried new rectifiers and have tried different wire combinations to the rectifier, I have tried new batteries, but still I cannot get these to run with the headlight on. They will run all day long with no head lights. I have read many posts but nothing that helps me wire in this 80ct110 alternator into this 72/73 ct90 wiring systems. I have 3 wires coming out of the motor yellow/white/black-white. All 3 seem to have suitable AC voltages. Can any one out there give me a suggestion on how I should connect the three wires to my system?
allen pierce		#1	[-]
Posts: 3773 Jul 10 11 7:55 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	You didn't mention that you had the 1972/1973, CT90 (the 1970 wiring diagram covers from 1970 up the early 1975, K6) or 1980 wiring diagrams, so maybe if you download them from our companion web site that might help you. Wiring Diagrams. Let's see if this makes sense... The setup for the 1980 & 1981, CT110's only uses half of the AC output wave from the alternator. It still works OK, however, it's not the most robust charging method, but, you only have one wire out of the alternator that goes to the rectifier. From 1982 on, the alternators used both sides of the AC output wave, as well as all of the CT90's. So, for the 1980 & 1981 CT110's... The WHITE wire will be the input AC volts to the rectifier from the alternator. This wire can be connected to the new Radio Shack rectifier to either one of the AC input connectors (labeled "AC" on opposite corners of the rectifier). I would tell you to get a female connector for the other "AC" spade on the Radio Shack rectifier, connect it and insulate it. It does not get connected to anything, and you don't want it shorting out either. The RED wire will be the output DC volts from the rectifier to the positive side of the battery and the ignition switch. On the new Radio Shack rectifier the RED wire will be connected to the only connector at a different angle (labeled "DC +" on the rectifier). I believe that you will need to make a new GREEN wire for a ground to the CT's frame (labeled "DC-" on the rectifier). Looks like the 1980 YELLOW turns into a Black/White wire on the wiring diagram that goes to the Turn Signal, Horn, Dimmer Switch. CT110's have an extra alternator circuit to power the headlight. All CT90's power the headlight from the battery, so you may be changing a few wires on the 1972/1973 wiring harness. Additionally, on CT110's the headlight is designed to be ALWAYS ON, it comes on as soon as the engine starts up, from the extra alternator circuit, not the battery. Also, CT90's starting with the 1975, K6 also had the headlight always on. I believe that your 1972/1973 has a headlight switch that has three postions... Off - Park - Headlamp, which really won't work for the 1980 engine electrical functions. You don't want the headlight to ever be turned off as it may result in overcharging your battery, to the point that you'll need a new one soon. You may need to find a CT110 headlight switch to make this right and just use the 1980 wiring diagram as your guide for hooking this up. Looks like the 1980 BLACK/WHITE wire goes to the Engine Stop Switch. You'll have to figure out if the 1972/1973 wires have any similar function by tracing the wires on the wiring diagram and figuring the function of any circuits. Once again a CT110 switch assembly for the engine stop switch side may be needed. Paved roads, just more needless government spending... I pick up my mail in Santa Barbara, California, USA. Last Edited By: allen pierce Jul 10 11 7:58 PM. Edited 1 times.
Mike3CT		#2	[-]
Posts: 25 Jul 10 11 9:27 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Allen, thanks for the reply. I do have both wiring diagrams and have been trying to morph the two into one with out much success. You are correct the white wire does go to the rectifier and is connected to the AC input, I still have a green wire to ground the rectifier from the CT90 harness. This I understand and have tried. The yellow wire on the other hand I believe turns into a B/W blue and white wire that runs off to the T/S Horn switch on the 80ct110. This is where I think everything goes bad I have tried different combinations and nothing really changes. The yellow wire out of the 110 plugs into the yellow in the 90 will run off to the h/l switch but will also run to the rectifier, which I have tried hooking up and omitting with not much difference. This leaves me with the Bk/W wire coming from the altenator on the 110 this one seems to run through the ignition sw/start stop /sw and eventually goes through the points condenser and coil, and as you mentioned the 90s do not have the stop sw nor does it have a wire that does the same as this thus the reason for the difficulty in morphing the two systems. I have even had all the wires from the altenator disconnected and the motor apparently runs off the battery. The light will come on even when the bike is not running which means it must be powered as you say by the battery. Which may mean that when the bike is running I must be getting some sort of drain. So I guess what I really need is someone to help me figure out the necessary modifications to the 70-74 wiring harness to make it work with the 80 altenator. I have never seen more than 7.5DCV when the bike is running when the light is switched on the voltage drops to under 6DCV. You mentioned my h/l switch it does have an On/Low/High. Any assistance from anyone on this would be greatly appreciated. Someone has had to have done a 110 engine conversion before.
allen pierce		#3	[-]
Posts: 3773 Jul 10 11 10:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Well, that's about all I've got. We may have someone here on the forum that could help, let's see if they see your message and can jump in. In the mean time you may also decide to join the Yahoo Honda Clone Motor Group List. While they mostly deal with other brands of engines, they have a great deal of wiring experience, including doing Lifan's that don't really come with much wiring inforamtion. And, they have Jon Pardue (The Wiring Guru) as a member, who may be able to help you out. Once you are approved as a member, look around in their "Files" section for wiring diagrams, they may just have the conversion you're looking for. It may take a little while to be approved as a member, so you can post messages, ask questions and view the "Files", just hang in there. Paved roads, just more needless government spending... I pick up my mail in Santa Barbara, California, USA.
Mike3CT	Ct110 charging	#4	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 15 11 3:24 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Allen, I am back to the drawing board! I can't get these two bikes to charge their batteries. I can run for about 40 miles and then the voltage drops too low and the bike will stop running. I even broke down and took it to Honda today and they basically told me to take it somewhere else. So, back I come for assistance. Does anyone know how to make this 80 110 engine charge my 73 90 battery? Please I am starting to become desperate.
The CT Shop		#5	[-]
Posts: 1696 Aug 15 11 4:30 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mike, Please start over, what year of bike are you having problems with.... Neal at the theCTshop in Auburn Ca. If it works, Don't fix it
allen pierce		#6	[-]
Posts: 3773 Aug 15 11 6:11 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Neal, He's got CT90 frames with 1980, CT110 engines, installed by a previous owner, additionally, wiring harness maybe be original CT90 (72-73) or the previous owner may have made some modifications to the wiring harness. The 1980 CT110 engine has that half wave alternator, so it's a weak charging system to start with. Mike... This one is a "hard one" to do, without someone... knowledgable, actually getting their hands on the CT's (digital multimeter in hand and doing a bunch of tests to see what's going on and then trying to figure out how to make it work). At least that's what I'd want to do. Where do you live? If you are in Northern California, maybe you can take them by Neal's place in Auburn and just let him tinker (or thinker) with it for awhile (Neal always likes a good puzzle... I'm speaking without Neal's permission). If that won't work for either you or Neal, then you want to find a local, independent motorcycle repair shop with an older mechanic that has been working on Honda's since the 70's (some one smart on these older bikes, someone that will love this CT and also likes puzzles, too). Maybe they will take this on. Paved roads, just more needless government spending... I pick up my mail in Santa Barbara, California, USA.
The CT Shop		#7	[-]
Posts: 1696 Aug 16 11 9:22 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mike3CT wrote: . I have even had all the wires from the alternator disconnected and the motor apparently runs off the battery. Any assistance from anyone on this would be greatly appreciated. Someone has had to have done a 110 engine conversion before. Seems to me you need to run the coil off of the bk/w wire. you will then need a way to open up the circuit to stop the engine. ie, a kill sw or the four wire key sw. I also think you will need a CT110 coil (AC) as opposed to the CT90 coil (DC). Using the half wave rectifier on the 80 engine just does not product enothe current to keep the battery charged to run the head light. You need to hook the yellow wire out of the engine to get the head light to run on AC. You will need to figure out what wires on the 90 headlight sw to hook up to so you do not have DC running to it also. Hope this makes some sense. Neal at the theCTshop in Auburn Ca. If it works, Don't fix it
Mike3CT	Ct110 charging	#8	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 16 11 11:25 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Allen / Neal, Thanks for the replies and yes what you have said does make sense. I did in fact try and run the black and white wire to the coil to run the bike but it didn't work not only that I didn't have a kill switch to run it through. By you mentioning the DC verses AC coil that would make perfect sense why I couldn't get it to run off the blk/wht AC wire. I do have an AC wire "white" powering the head light which baffles me to why the head light drains the battery and why it is powered with the bike not running. So I started thinking about the H/L switch and maybe it needs to be swaped with a latter model that has the kill switch and 80s H/L switch wiring. There is a blk DC wire that runs to the h/l switch which powers the T/L and I think the High beam. The yellow AC wire comes out of the motor to the h/l switch and rectifier. I have a difficult time reading how the switch works on these diagrams. What is scary is that all I have written above is coming from memory. This is what I have hooked up now and I have been riding around the neighborhood with the h/l off to see if the battery will charge, again this is going off memory. The blk/wht wire goes to the pink which goes to the rectifier, the white wire goes to the white wire that goes to the h/l switch, yellow wire goes to the yellow wire that goes to the rectifier and the h/l switch. I get pretty high DCv coming out of the rectifier, red/wht wire, I have to say 10-12v or so, when I check with the battery hooked up I get 5.89v after putting a few miles on it I have 6.04v all with the h/l off, so at this point I am optimistic. I plan on taking it for a longer ride this evening to see what happens to the battery all with the h/l off if the battery stays charged then I will address the h/l issue. If need be maybe I will wire the h/l direct to the engine and just have it on all the time. I usually get about 40 miles to a battery, hahaha, kind of like a Pirus. Please keep the advise coming I do appreciate it. Oh btw, I live in Long Beach CA, but the bikes live in Lake Almanor, CA not too far from Auburn.
allen pierce		#9	[-]
Posts: 3773 Aug 16 11 11:50 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Mike3CT wrote: I do have an AC wire "white" powering the head light which baffles me to why the head light drains the battery and why it is powered with the bike not running. The CT90 headlight is wired to be powered off the battery and will come on when the key is ON and the engine is OFF (just like you say). So, I'd guess that, that part of the CT90 wiring harness is still functioning. Couple that with only having the 1980, CT110, half wave alternator output, and well... See if you can find and disable the battery from operating the headlight. The CT110 headlight is only powered by the alternator when the engine is running and WILL NOT come ON when the key is ON and the engine is OFF. This is the condition you want to have with your 1980, CT110 engine. Mike3CT wrote: Oh btw, I live in Long Beach CA, but the bikes live in Lake Almanor, CA not too far from Auburn. Hum... Paved roads, just more needless government spending... I pick up my mail in Santa Barbara, California, USA.
The CT Shop		#10	[-]
Posts: 1696 Aug 16 11 4:55 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I would get a AC coil to start with(don't forget a kill sw) then go on to the head light problem. You will need to separate the AC for the head light from the tail light power... I would be more than happy to play with it since Allen has so graciously offed my services. Neal Neal at the theCTshop in Auburn Ca. If it works, Don't fix it
Mike3CT		#11	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 16 11 8:03 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Thanks Neal, I rode around about 15miles this evening with no headlight. Started off with a battery at 6.08v and ended with 6.14v so I am charging and the bike ran well. My low beam on the head light is burned out so I can only do the high beam and I will give it a try soon. Strange thing though I have DCv at the blue and white head lamp wires. My worry now is could I be over charging the battery, or does it act as a volage regulator. I know when I charge them with the 12v battery charger pretty much boils them, but I don't see or smell any signs of that happening. I found a switch on Ebay but looks like the h/l power would go through the dimmer switch which would be on the left hand switch I am guessing since mine was on the old rh switch. I also don't know how the throttle cable is incorporated in this switch either. I could run my with ACv wire directly to the head light and just have it on all the time. Not a bad option if it still charges the battery. I just don't understand why I am getting DCv at my head light wires. I have ACv in the white and yellow wires and DCv in the black wire that run up to the h/l switch. How is it possible for the h/l switch to change it to DCv? Hmmmmmmmmmm. that blk wire must be powering high/low/and tail lights. I will disconnect the blk wire and see if the power is gone from the two h/l wires. Where are all those ACv going? I will keep my eye open for an AC coil as well if all this fails.
The CT Shop		#12	[-]
Posts: 1696 Aug 17 11 7:37 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	That's the big plus of a CT110 engine is that you don't need a battery for the ignition system. Neal at the theCTshop in Auburn Ca. If it works, Don't fix it
Mike3CT		#13	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 17 11 11:45 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	more testing last night reveals the black wire does power all lights. The h/l switch when in the low and high setting only connects the white and yellow AC wires coming from the altenator and the yellow one continues on to the rectifier. The white wire I have running up to the h/l will only make the h/l glow orange. I get about 20DCv out of the rectifier with the higher rpms. I got it hooked up the way it was yesterday and I will see what happens on a ride with the h/l on. I hate to start buying all new switches and coils if I can get this to work. I had a hell of a time just getting the correct handle bars and throttle for this one.
Mike3CT		#14	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 18 11 5:20 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Neal, I found out that the yellow wire out of the motor will power the h/l with enough ACv to power it where as the white wire does not, but now I don't have enough power to keep the battery charged. So the search begins for an AC coil which looks like I can get from honda for almost a $100. Let me verify what you said, the 80 110 can run off of ACv powered directly from the engine with the blk/wht wire? So starting it, the motor will generate enough ACv to get spark to fire off with the kick starter? So with the h/l and the motor running off on ACv the only thing the battery would power would be the the tail/brake lights, horn, and blinkers if I had them. Is there anyway to tell the difference from an ACv coil and a DCv coil. I feel like I am looking for a muffler bearing.
Mike3CT		#15	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 19 11 10:13 AM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Neal, you didn't give up on me did you? I got a coil coming to try it and I guess will have to put some sort of kill switch in line to shut off the motor, yes? I am guessing then with one AC wire going to the h/l, one AC going to the coil, I will have one left for the rectifier. Should I, since the 80 110 uses a two wire rectifier, get one to get the proper voltage out of it to charge the batery and run the tail/brake lights, or should I use the almight radio shack four wire one?
The CT Shop		#16	[-]
Posts: 1696 Aug 19 11 4:42 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Not yet, Did you see my lead on Ebay for a coil? It is posted under your wanted add. Neal at the theCTshop in Auburn Ca. If it works, Don't fix it
Mike3CT		#17	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 19 11 8:15 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	yes, I did see that one but wasn't sure that the electronic ignition coil operated off of ACv, so I opted not to bid on that one. I did get one for the 80-81 because I am becoming desperate probably paid waaaaaay too much for it. This bike is going home to Lake Almanor labor day so I would like to get it resolved before that, however it has a sibling that does the exact same thing that I will bring back so I will need another one it solves my issue. Thanks Neal I will let you know what happens.
Mike3CT	almost there!	#18	[-]
Posts: 25 Aug 26 11 8:46 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Neal, new coil arrived and installed it had to run the blk/wht wire through the pink wire to the coil and then back again through the green wire to power the points and bingo it fired and ran and the battery wasn't even hooked up, yippee. So I had to run the green wire into the gray wire to the t/s switch and back through the blue wire and now the R on the t/s switch stands for run, and the L and the l stand for off. So the bike can run with the h/l on and no battery but I am still, believe it or not, not charging the battery. With the key on and h/l on the only thing running through the battery is the tail/brake/dash lights and the horn. I get close to 6DCv at the battery running with the h/l on and key off, and it will drop almost 1DCv with the key on. I started the evening with a battery at just over 6v 6.04DCv and after riding it around for a while I am now at 5.77DCv. I have a new battery and I have several old batteries I can try to charge up and run it with those to see what happens. I will also try running with the light on and key off to see if I am charging that way. Maybe I can narrow it down to one of the lights. Maybe something grounding? I am taking any suggestions I can see a glimmer of light not sure if it is the end of the tunnel, or somebody teaing me with a flashlight. Dangit!
vuldub		#19	[-]
Posts: 277 Sep 8 11 6:39 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	allen pierce wrote: Let's see if this makes sense... The setup for the 1980 & 1981, CT110's only uses half of the AC output wave from the alternator. It still works OK, however, it's not the most robust charging method, but, you only have one wire out of the alternator that goes to the rectifier. From 1982 on, the alternators used both sides of the AC output wave, as well as all of the CT90's. So, for the 1980 & 1981 CT110's... The WHITE wire will be the input AC volts to the rectifier from the alternator. This wire can be connected to the new Radio Shack rectifier to either one of the AC input connectors (labeled "AC" on opposite corners of the rectifier). I would tell you to get a female connector for the other "AC" spade on the Radio Shack rectifier, connect it and insulate it. It does not get connected to anything, and you don't want it shorting out either. The RED wire will be the output DC volts from the rectifier to the positive side of the battery and the ignition switch. On the new Radio Shack rectifier the RED wire will be connected to the only connector at a different angle (labeled "DC +" on the rectifier). *I believe that you will need to make a new GREEN wire for a ground to the CT's frame (labeled "DC-" on the rectifier).* Allen, I just did some troubleshooting on my 1981. It has the two wire output from the rectifier. If I just connect the red to +ve and white to either one of the two AC spades, I get 7.23V charging at idle. If I add a green wire from the -ve DC to the frame, the volts drops way down to around 3.34V, so I'm pretty sure the ground should be left off. Comments? Regards...Wes Calgary, Canada 73 CT90 81 CT110 81 CT70 04 TW200 07 Vulcan 1500 Last Edited By: vuldub Sep 8 11 6:44 PM. Edited 3 times.
allen pierce		#20	[-]
Posts: 3773 Sep 8 11 10:19 PM Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	OK, maybe that will work. I guess it's been too long since I owned a 1981, CT110. Have you taken any rectifier output voltage readings at other RPM's, higher than idle? The Honda Shop Manual says, battery charging doesn't start until you get the engine at or around 2,500 rpm. Which would lead me to believe that at idle the rectifier output voltage should be below 6 volts, and that's the kind of reading I've measured on other year CT's. Granted the 1980 and 1981 are just strange bikes... electrically speaking, so maybe you are correct to not have a ground wire. Paved roads, just more needless government spending... I pick up my mail in Santa Barbara, California, USA.

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